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A Cancer on the Liberty Movement

LibertyMovementI can’t believe I actually have to write this article… and I’m deeply disappointed that no one else has. Where are all the other adults? I don’t want to wade into Internet crapstorms; I have better things to do with my time.

But there is disease in the liberty movement, and if no one else will call it out, I guess I’ll have to. So be it.

Old poisons are flooding back into the broader liberty movement, being sold with new packaging. And they’re leading ‘anti-state’ people right back into the swamps of political obsession and plain old hate. The more you suck it up, the more you’ll slide right back into the stinking pits of politics and mingle your life with all the venom and degeneracy it produces.

Welcome back to the Matrix, Mr. Libertarian.

The Obsession

I just checked a popular liberty website, and of the 50 stories linked, 14 had titles like these:

“Israel’s Friday Bloodbath”

“Ethnic Cleansing and Zionist Supremacy in Israel”

“Israelis Are Today’s Nazis”

This is simply obsession. Articles like these are the seeds from which poisoned fruit grows. Don’t believe me? Then maybe you won’t want to read some of the comments this post will generate.

Israel is a state, and we hold all states as morally inferior, do we not? So, why the obsession with just this one? Where are the breathless horror stories from Belarus? Where are the brave investigations of Turkmenistan? Where’s the in-depth analysis of Uzbekistan, or Burma, or the Congo. Why do none of those places matter?

The answer becomes obvious soon enough: Those places don’t generate the right kinds of passions. And if you keep reading these obsessive stories, you’ll absorb their slogans and take their rationalizations into your mind.

Do you really want to go back there?

But, But, But…

Almost any angle you take to justify the Israel obsession leads right back to politics and drags your mind right back to statism, anger, hate, and the endorsement of violence.

Here are the usual angles – the new labels for the old poisons:

We’re only talking about Zionism.

That is to say, “We’re not against all politics, only certain kinds.” That’s some kind of a position for an anti-statist to take. Isn’t political force by itself contrary to the nonaggression principle? Why then should this one be the focus of all our attention? Aren’t they all refuse? Why the obsession with only one among hundreds?

But these people cannot let go of Israel; it stands as the central target for their nasty blows, like “Israelis are today’s Nazis.”

In the end, “only about Zionism” serves little purpose but to deflect charges of anti-Semitism. And seeing that the title mentioned above puts millions of Israelis into one bag and slaps a “Nazi” label on it, those charges seems quite fitting.

And if the Israelis were actually like the Nazis, the Palestinians would all be dead by now. So the statement is also illogical.

They’re not really Jews; they’re Khazars.

A modern classic. Aside from the fact that this line has been fairly conclusively proven false, what difference would it make anyway? Why should anyone care? Shall we scrutinize the genetic history of the Hmong people too?

If people call themselves Jews, follow the traditions, and die for their beliefs from time to time, what else matters? Jews, after all, have lived amongst other peoples for 2,000 years. There is plenty of Russian, German, Polish, Spanish, and other types of ‘blood’ mixed in by now. Why should that even matter?

But it matters for this reason: If they’re not really Jews, then they’re not really entitled to their tiny slice of land.

So, here we are, back to deciding which group is or isn’t entitled to political power over a piece of land. Welcome back to the same old endorsements of violence: “my favorite ruler monkeys versus your favorite ruler monkeys.”

Same old poison, same old results.

There are Jews at the forefront of the (insert nasty name) movement.

Marxism was a big one to blame on the Jews for a long time, but media, banking, and others are now vying for the crown.

The truth is that there have been Jews at the forefront of almost every new movement, including the liberty movement. We had Rand, Rothbard, and von Mises, didn’t we?

There is of course a reason for this: Jews survived for many centuries by getting involved in new things before the regulators caught up with them and forced them out. Over time, the strategy stuck and Jews internalized it. At this point in world history, new things simply attract more Jews than most other ethnicities. So what?

“You’re Just Pro-Israel!”

Us/them
Friend/foe
With us/against us
If you’re not condemning them, you’re supporting them

All of this, my friends, is binary thinking; all of it declines to the level of primate instincts. All of it is devolution.

Israel is a state and is therefore a geographic monopoly on the use of violence. And that’s not good.

But so is the Palestinian Authority a kind of state, and it authorizes violence too. Is that somehow okay?

  • The Israelis did some nasty things under British rule.

  • The Palestinians (and fellow Arabs) murdered lots of Israelis after the UN vote in 1947.

  • Israel forces many decent people through road blocks and puts them behind walls.

  • Palestinians have a long history of blowing people up, and now stabbing them.

So, who’s your favorite victim?

Which cause is the one to fight for?

Which side must be put down?

Which enemy do you want dead?

Does being in the area make someone guilty?

Does their religion make them guilty?

A Path Back to Barbarity, Back to Hate

That’s all this stuff is, my friends: It’s a path back into darkness. The stories that call you to walk it are poison.

And if you want to see the reality of life in the tiny piece of land these people are so obsessed over, take a good look at this.

Choose light, not darkness.

Paul Rosenberg
www.freemansperspective.com

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  • faithandhonor

    I am very happy to hear to bring this to the surface. All your points are valid, other than the one about states being “invalid”. The Jews were given their land, very clearly delineated by God in the Torah, and He never revoked that gift. God also gave the idea of governments to mankind. That they become agents for abuse is due to the fallen nature of humankind, but that doesn’t invalidate the need for government of some sort, for the sake of basic order.

    My main point to your article is the very disturbing rise of the Khazar myth, written by a brilliant but deranged man, used currently by those who hate Jews and have no idea of even how God views Jews. God always allowed for converts to Judaism, and welcomed all who would follow and obey Him, so the claim that only genetics make a person a “Jew” are completely ignorant. The linguistic and DNA evidence shows that the Khazars were a Turkic people, not Semetic, but they DID convert, so the gracious Hebrew God counted them as Jews, no matter the genetics. And His opinion is the only one that matters.

    I have Libertarian friends who have bought this lie hook, line, and sinker, and will not even look at the evidence (which I have come to believe is typical of libertarians, IMHO). Even Christian who love the Jewish people have bought into this. It’s most concerning, and nothing good can come of it.

    • JdL

      The Jews were given their land, very clearly delineated by God in the Torah, and He never revoked that gift.

      Aren’t the revealed religions wonderful? Ultimately, “God” can be used as an excuse for anything. It’s a habit practiced by all the most dangerous people in the world: radical Islamists, radical Zionists, and fundamentalist Christians (allegedly followers of the “prince of peace”). They all want to murder people over a patch of land and use “God” as an excuse. A pox on all their houses!

      • http://www.jesus-on-taxes.com/ Ned Netterville

        Hear! Hear!

    • Klaatu Fabrice Aquinas

      Tell ya what. Let’s cut to the chase. Let’s not even discuss the “Jews.” (despite what the late great [assassinated] Roi Tov has revealed.) [1] Or what biblical scholar Micheal S. Heiser can teach us about the divine council and the Nachash ..

      Let’s talk about their “handlers.” Shall we?

      “As for Jesuits and Jews (I use the proper noun to err on the side of political correctness), the main principle is that neither subscribes to the Jesus of Scripture, and both are subservient to Rome. The declaration “We have no king
      but Caesar” is observably as binding today as it was when the priests and the pharisees uttered it during Christ’s trial.

      To those who insist that Jews run the world, I say okay, but only by the permission and appointment of Rome.

      According to Manfred Barthel, whose book on the Jesuits was submitted to several Jesuits for approval, “the Order has always had a reputation as a
      refuge for Jewish converts.” The second General of the Order, Diego
      Laynez, made clear in his autobiography that his family were prominent
      “New Christians,” as Jewish converts in Spain and Portugal were called.

      By the end of the 17th century, the Jesuits were suffering accusations of defiling
      Christian doctrine and morality with their “rabbinical-pharisaical mentality” and “subtle Talmudic incantations.”

      In 1814, however, the Jesuits turned anti-semitic. I believe this was in order
      to mask their collusion with the money power operated by the House of
      Rothschild, “guardian of the Vatican Treasury.” [2]

      Still, behind the convenient facade of antisemitism, as Bismarck wrote (quoting Kaiser Wilhelm I), “the Jews and the Jesuits always flock together.”
      I think after reading RULERS OF EVIL you’ll understand how the Jesuits can simultaneously embrace, discredit, frame, and annihilate the Jews.

      The Jesuits are, after all, an army run by a General who can do anything to anyone under Rome’s jurisdiction in order to preserve the Roman State, which
      is evidently the New World Order.” (February 11, 2000)

      http://tuppersaussy.com/museum/html/writings/articles/dialvol1no1.html

      ———–
      [1] Just have the courage to read “The Cross of Bethlehem.” Written by a former IDF officer. http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/02/20/who-is-roi-tov-and-why-should-we-care/
      [2] http://tuppersaussy.com/museum/html/writings/articles/15brienner.html

    • Robert Moriarty

      I was reading through the email blast and I was in total agreement until I stumbled across something simply not true. In the article above you say, “Israel is a state.”

      We all know that is not true. Israel is no more a state than is Kurdistan.

      States have recognized borders. Kurdistan has no recognized borders. Israel has no recognized borders, they are taking more land from the owners every day.

      The Zionists own and operate the political system of the US today. They decide who gets elected, who gets rejected. They decide who the US goes to war with and who is the enemy is of the day.

      We cannot have freedom in the US until we break the chains of bondage under which we suffer.

      • faithandhonor

        The “Zionists” control the US political system? The dictionary says that a Zionist is “A political movement that supports the maintenance and preservation of the state of Israel as a Jewish homeland, originally arising in the late 1800s with the goal of reestablishing a Jewish homeland in the region of Palestine”. How does this rule the US?

        • Jason Bradley

          “Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.”

          • Jason Bradley

            I’m sure you know who that quote is from. Zionism is the ultimate racism, but the problem for those assholes is, while they have been able to subdue humanity so far by lying, and the absolute cowardice that it takes to wage war without the common courtesy of advising your adversaries, is that they will eventually figure it out, and we, the human beings, are one people, finally.

          • Ron Mortimer

            Jason

            I don’t share your anti racism. The whole ‘racist’ concept was created by…..guess who? to deflect and disarm us….whilst still maintaining *their* ‘ethnic solidarity against us.
            The waging of war without, as you so nicely put it,without the common courtesy of advising their adversaries…..is axactly the position we are in and their weapons are words and concepts that we have internalised.

          • Ron Mortimer

            Jason

            Whenever i hear someone carrying on about anti semitism I like to point out jewish anti gentilism. It’s a great conversation starter if you can get past the programmed outrage that many still seem to have.

        • Jason Bradley

          Don’t play stupid. We know all about AIPAC, the former Zionist Council (that had Kennedy assassinated.)

          • faithandhonor

            Why don’t you grow up, go to an etiquette class, and get some manners? I thought you were going away, anyway.

          • Jason Bradley

            It’s fun. You have yet to try to refute my assertations. Zionism is the marriage of racism and cowardice. Your people declared war on humanity without the common courtesy to advise their adversaries. Unfortunately for you, we know now and are one people.

          • faithandhonor

            “My people”, the Swedes? Hhmmmm. Seems to be a bit of presumption here. Unlike you, I study REAL history, not made-up opinions devoid of fact.

          • Jason Bradley

            Everything I have said is historical fact. 106 expulsions from 106 different countries is not a coincidence but due to atrocious behavior.

          • Ron Mortimer

            Jason

            Henry Kissinger the old war criminal did hit the nail on the head when he said that any people as persecuted as the jews must have been doing something wrong!! An as one he would know…

            So the real question is rather than how persecuted they have been is what ave they done to provoke it? People do not get expelled 106 times for nothing.

        • Ron Mortimer

          Faith
          Who do you think the neocons are? Methodists? Baptists?
          And whose interests do they serve, the US or Israel?
          What were the previous few US led wars serving, US intersts or Israeli interests? Simple.

    • PlasticMoney888

      “Khazars were a Turkic people, not Semitic,” Thanks for making it very clear.

      • URSULARICHES

        Palestinians are semitic.

        • faithandhonor

          The reason I made that point is that there are Asian Jews (in the Asian steppe of western China) , Ethiopian Jews (black as can be), Semitic Jews, Turkic Jews, Sephardic Jews, etc. The point being that a genuine “Jew” is one that identifies with the God of Abraham and follows Him. It is a spiritual definition and identification, not a racial or genetic one.

          So the entire argument about “Jews” being defined by solely their genetic component is false, and therefore the arguments that Jews are not entitled to the God-given homeland because the Ashkenazim are not “real Jews” (i.e., Semitic), also falls apart.

          Most Palestinians are Semitic, and genetically from the same root as the original Chaldean Jews. But the promise of the return to a homeland was never given to them. It was given to the children of Promise, the descendants of Isaac.

          • Ron Mortimer

            Faithandhonor

            You are incorrect when you state “The point being that a genuine “Jew” is one that identifies with the God of Abraham and follows Him. It is a spiritual definition and identification, not a racial or genetic one.”

            Halachicly speaking, anyone born of a jewish mother is a jew. An jatheist jew is still a jew.

          • faithandhonor

            Well, yes, you are correct. I dated a few of those in my earlier years. My main point being the incorrect definition of a Jew being solely on the genetics.

          • Ron Mortimer

            faithandhonor

            I agree that it isn’t solely genetics, but it isn’t just about faith either. IMO it is about culture and self identification…. and that seems to allow for a lot of overlap with genetics and faith.

    • URSULARICHES

      The Jews did not have proper sovereignty over the land from before the time that Jesus was born, they were cast out of their lands before for many generations. They should be better the Palestinian people, they are not just and they are the ones who rule the place. IOsrael should have laws for themselves about the way they treat others but they themselves are above any and every law and the Palestinian lives that are lost are not cared about. Jews can and do go and shoot Palestinians in their own home and get away with it scot free.

      Basically if the Jews are not following the 10 commandments to any degree, they are not God’s people and they do not deserve any special treatment at all.

      It is those who hear God’s word and keep it who please Him. A Muslim or even an atheist who is genuinely kind, who feeds the poor and helps the homeless does that to Jesus. BTW, I want concrete proof that the figure of the CC was actually 6 million. Never has a tragedy in history been milked the way that the Nazi holocaust was. Nobody in the world has ever suffered and there have been no other genocides and tortuous deaths, only the Jews? This is not true, What is happening to the Palestinian people is beyond bad, it is criminal, it is racist apartheid. The Jews in Iran get on very well with their people there because it is contemporary political Zionism which all the Muslims hate, they do not hate the Christians or the people who follow Judaism. Only the Takfiris are murdering the Syrian people for our banker dominated world to sack their nation. The Syrian government is not the problem, they are keeping their people and nation free from the clutches of those who would rob it, from those who would indebt Syria to eternal indebtedness to the IMF whose loans the intermediary government will take out and spend before there was an election which would anyway be invalid as the incumbent government would all be dead or in prison.

    • http://www.jesus-on-taxes.com/ Ned Netterville

      @ faithandhonor: “The Jews were given their land, very clearly delineated by God in the
      Torah, and He never revoked that gift. God also gave the idea of
      governments to mankind. That they become agents for abuse is due to the
      fallen nature of humankind, but that doesn’t invalidate the need for
      government of some sort, for the sake of basic order.”

      The Jews were not a nation-state when God gave them their land, for if they had been, and like all nation-states were thus ruled by human laws, He would have given them anything at alll. If you think otherwise, I would encourage you to read 1 Samuel 8, where the Jews forsook God and opted for a king, making of themselves a nation-state, wherein a king usurps the role of lawgiver from God. And I am of the opinion that with that purposeful choice of a human lawmaker over God, the Jews themselves renounced their title to the land God gave them and joined, as they desired, the ranks of all other people living under human laws with as much or as little land as they could acquire and hold through force and violence. For force and violence are the coin of all nation states, so Paul is exactly right. All states, including Israel, are predicated on force and violence, making them illegitimate in the sight of God and God-fearing people. That is undoubtedly why Jesus declined to accept all the glory and authority of all the kingdoms of the world when the devil tempted him with that offer. (See Luke 4)

  • JdL

    Fair points, Paul. Israel DOES represent a particularly dangerous threat to the world, however:
    . It’s sitting on several hundred nuclear weapons.
    . It refuses to allow inspections, something it expects of other nations (such as Iran).
    . Its leaders have a bellicose attitude and a demonstrated willingness to snatch land any time they please
    . By some means or other, it has the entire U.S. government in its pocket.

    I wish the Jews of the world well. I wish the government of Israel the exact opposite. It is leading the people within its borders to extinction, IMHO. Along with a good many outside its borders.

    • faithandhonor

      You should study the history of the borders of Israel. Most of what Israel should possess today, aside from the Biblical description, encompasses most of Jordan. They have given up, and have had taken from them, far more territory than their borders of today.

      • individuisma

        When you use the pronoun “They” in your post above you are speaking of two very different groups of people in two very different eras of history. In any case, I care not about “national borders”. I care about individual rights – regardless of the religion or ethnicity of the individual. I do agree that some critics of Israeli policies are motivated by hatred. Some critics of U.S. foreign policy are motivated by a hatred of Westerners. I would not be surprised, however, if many of the most disgusting posts are actually trolls trying to impugn the motives of those critical of policies of a certain country in the Middle East.

      • GrayCat

        You should study Isaiah 56 – 59 to see who God Himself defines as His only True Israel; it has nothing to do with worldly national boundaries, even those of the ancient Promised Land.

  • Jason Bradley

    “Rosenberg” Isn’t that an Ashkenazi (fake and yes it has been dna proven that they are not the real Jews) name? The world is simply waking up Rosenberg. It’s no “cancer” that people are discovering the truth on a massive level. Be happy for humanity! :D

  • Jason Bradley

    As I’ve suspected all along, you’re a Zionist disinformation shill. Too late! You can’t put the contents back in Pandora’s box! Humanity is rousing from its centuries long slumber AND it has been proven that the Ashkenazi are fake Jews, the same ones responsible for the Russian and Ukrainian (real) holocausts among much other evil. I just unsubscribed.

    • faithandhonor

      I see… Let’s not confuse you with the facts, or an appeal to reason, or even to our better nature, you want your prejudices, your fantasies, your bitterness and gall. Good riddance.

      • Jason Bradley

        The facts, like say that the entire trans-Atlantic slave trade was 100% Jewish owned? (likely Ashkenazi, I’d say), or that the Russian and Ukrainian holocausts were carried out by the same people? and that their abhorrent behavior got them expelled from 106 different countries (that can’t be a coincidence), oh hey, let’s talk 9-11 which was clearly carried out by Israel. Oh hey, let’s go back in time a bit. I know who had Kennedy assassinated! Lots of people do! :D and what of the bombing of the U.S.S Liberty? Don’t even get me started on the so called “Federal” “Reserve”. The can’t out of the bag motherfucker, and it’s not going back in. :D

        • Paul Rosenberg

          I thought you were going away. I look forward to it.

          Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life.
          – Eric Hoffer, The True Believer

          • Ron Mortimer

            Paul
            “Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life.”
            Nonsense…

            Anyhow, what passes for ‘hatred’ these days is entirely dependant on the target. Even mild criticism or dislike of jews is considered hatred…..but jews can hate whites (eg. Noel Ignatiev, Susan Sontag et al) and that is considered just nothing, normal conversation, if a little edgy( actually there’s nothing really edgy about hating whites).

        • URSULARICHES

          Muammer Gaddafi the champion of human rights and author of the green charter and creator of direct democracy in the nation of Libya, he said that Kennedy was done away with by Iz because of his wish to monitor their nukes.However, the people often care more about having the Jews dissed or the state of Iz exposed more than they care about the fact that a Roman Catholic president, a really decent one, was murdered in cold blood.

          • Ron Mortimer

            Ursula

            Gaddhafi was targeted because he proposed a gold backed North African dinar.
            Banksters want you gone….you are gone.

            ……………………………………………………..
            “However, the people often care more about having the Jews dissed or the state of Iz exposed more than they care about the fact that a Roman Catholic president, a really decent one, was murdered in cold blood.
            ………………………………………………………..
            All the programming we have received over the past 50 years has elevated ‘anti semitism’ into some heinous crime. Of course the jews have no such hangups about discussing us….there is hardly such a thing known as ‘anti goyism’.
            So everyone shrieks and panics and screams “ant semite” when all one is doing is simply looking at jews with a cool eye.

        • Ron Mortimer

          Jason

          You and I and a growing number of people (though still too few)know these facts. We just need to do our bit to make sure that knows these facts. The tribe that owns the media don’t hesitate in airbrushing out of history the points you mention.

        • http://www.jesus-on-taxes.com/ Ned Netterville

          @ “The facts, like say that the entire trans-Atlantic slave trade was 100% Jewish owned?” PROVE IT!

      • Paul Rosenberg

        Well said, faithandhonor… and if there are any other subscribers like that one, I hope they unsubscribe too.

      • URSULARICHES

        Israeli generals are leading ISIS in Iraq and in Syria. Look up Veterans today website.

        • Ron Mortimer

          ISIS are are simply a destabilization tool created by Israel and the Saudis with a US blessing.
          Remember, the borders of the proposed ‘Eretz Israel’ extend from the Euphrates to the Nile. They used to talk about it, and made maps of it 50 years ago but lately have gone very quiet about it…..the plan is in play.

    • URSULARICHES

      Jews are laughing at Christians saying they can worship Jews if they like, they are making a mockery against our Lord too. I refuse to worship Jews, Jesus, is God and His mother and Holy saints are all worthy of deep veneration but the Zionist criminals are not worthy of it.

    • URSULARICHES

      Come back please because I am fed up with the jew worshippers in our Catholic church. It is Jesus and not the Jews or the state of apartheid Zionist Iz. I am also fed up because the Catholics have been voting presumably against abortion for decades and yet the GOP which is seen as less pro abortion, has not actually stopped it. The reason is that everyone voted against the Republicans because of the wars.

      The Republicans are just stringing and stringing the Catholics along whilst they ignore everything else around them and they ignore the criminality of our governments in every other area. Surely we citizens should speak up against the evils our governments perpetrates abroad onto others or we are culpable of it. We cannot be blind to everything apart from abortion, If our pro life candidates we choose to vote for are also to murder millions abroad, that is not right.

    • GrayCat

      The reality is that “Jewishness” — no matter of what genetic line or nation, is irrelevant to God and to His true libertarian followers.

      Read Isaiah chapters 56 through 59 for God’s own definition of who His True Israel is. Then Jesus’ teachings on this, and especially His Great Commission. This is all that’s relevant in His eyes, and thus it should be all that’s relevant in our eyes who claim to be His followers.

  • URSULARICHES

    The Jews have these books called the Talmud which JC referred to when He said that the Pharisees were following man made laws and bending His laws out of recognition. The Talmud calls all the non Jews as little less than animals and their commandments do not apply to them, they can treat them (us) worse than we treat animals.

  • URSULARICHES

    I am a Catholic and a peacemaker in that I object loudly to the injustices against man kind and I yearn for peace and justice which creates peace. Peacemakers are called God’s children, look up the Beatitudes. I also search for the truth about everything.
    You can leave Jason Bradley alone because his viewpoint is different to yours. Perhaps it is yours that is off key. Remember how we Catholics protected our priests and Bishops who abused so many children, for so many decades? We should be more humble and listen to others who disagree with us. The Zionist foreign policies of America F UK EU Saudi Iz and their trashing of nations by paying mercenary armies are criminal and the nation of Iz herself is deeply racist and more reprehensible than the KKK or apartheid South Africa.

  • ReallyOldOne

    Good article. You put into words what I have been sensing for some time. And you are a prophet: “Then maybe you won’t want to read some of the comments this post will generate.”

  • http://www.rawfoodbarefoot.com/ Russell James

    You summed it up pretty well ” Same old poison, same old results.”

    Serve up more hummus and see if we can’t get Human beings, being Human compassionate, loving people.

  • Thomas

    Paul,
    Thank you for that clearheaded reminder of what libertarians say we are about. Your piece, some of the comments below and my life experiences make me wonder if the human desire to control other humans is just part of our nature. That is, the desire for control is not limited to politicians, but very common in humans, generally. That would make thin libertarians rare, and perhaps unnatural, creatures indeed. I certainly hope not.
    Thomas

    • Ron Mortimer

      Thomas
      Interesting point you make re desire for control. I too am wondering if it is indeed hardwired into us. The other side of the control coin is that of protection…..you protect the group and the group protects you.
      Another aspect to the desire to control is the desire to be controlled….so even if by some miracle Libertarianworld springs into being somehow…all those who in varying degrees desire to be controlled will somehow take us back to the current situation.

      • http://www.jesus-on-taxes.com/ Ned Netterville

        Ron, I depend on God to protect me. He–or is it She– can handle all comers.

      • Thomas

        Ron,
        The sense I get from reading Mises and Rothbard, among others, is that the desire to be controlled is perhaps explained alternately as the desire to be taken care of. To the extent that people understand true capitalism (i.e., not much), they see it as a dog-eat-dog system of which they want no part. However, when, not if, the “taken care” part is removed, again per the Austrian authors, the results will be good since the natural ability of humans to produce, even as employees, and cooperate and they will be better off and like their new situation. The poison spread by the willful falsehoods told about capitalism by politicians and academics makes the prospect of a transition terrifying to many. The return to the “controlled” / “taken care of” situation will likely not be possible since the means to consume and distribute capital will have been exhausted. Even a silver-tongued devil demagogue politician will only be able to deliver a tiny amount of that promised, and in the extremely short run, to the point where people will realize they are being lied to and will not return to the old ways. The transition will be less than fun, though the results will improve the lives of most people.

        • Ron Mortimer

          Tom
          Thanks for that reply.

          Strictly speaking, the politician that you cite will not exist as there would be nothing for him to do.

          My sense is that since many things are hardwired into the human psyche, certain social structures are inevitable.

          • Thomas

            Ron,
            I agree that the behavior of humans in society has certain natural characteristics. Rothbard’s, The Ethics of Liberty, is really an excellent book length argument for a legal system based on natural law.
            The problem is that in the hurly-burly of everyday life people do not agree on this hardwiredness. I think that that is due to a lack of thinking about it and, more importantly, the desire for a world other than what it is.
            Capitalism, or perhaps anarcho-capitalism, seems to be the system that tames the savage breast of humans to cooperate as well as can be expected. Unfortunately, the green monster of natural human envy intervenes and apparently a great number of people simply cannot deal with being average at most things. That is, they cannot stand the fact that people of true talent, e.g., Bill Gates, succeed so wildly when they are making $50k a year. As far as my present understanding will allow, capitalism in the only system that will keep the peace. Once politicians have “nothing to do” since there is either nothing to loot or, more likely, people generally will not stand for being looted any longer, most people will have to come to grips with being merely average. Only capitalism will make that possible if people want to maintain anything approaching our current standard of living.

          • Ron Mortimer

            Tom
            Thanks for that reply.

            I agree that capitalism of some type is the best way to ‘tame the savage beast’ as you put it or as Adam Smith put it “men are never so innocently employed as when they are making money’.I take that to mean compared to making war amongst other things.

            One question(and it may sound blasphemous almost) and that is to do with the similarities in almost messianic outlook between (some)libertarians and (most)communists ie. the world will be made right…..come the revolution. But the vast majority of people aren’t interested in revolutions, communist or otherwise. They also retain all the character traits that make this world the way it is now…..and will ultimately bring undone any change.

            The idea of hardwiredness offends many people who somehow think that we can transcend our biological and psychological nature.

            As you say about being average…..well that is what averageness is and most of us have it lol

            cheers

          • Thomas

            Ron,
            Thank you also. Your thoughts and questions are thought provoking.
            My understanding of capitalism, especially anarcho-capitalism where the government is no longer in at least the economic sphere of human action, is that the incentives of capitalism bring out the best in people. It always sounds odd to my ears to hear people explain capitalism as the constant attempt to satisfy other people, as if it were an altruistic endeavor. Adam Smith had it right when he wrote of the “invisible hand” guiding men to do right by their fellow man by concentrating on doing well for themselves, and that that would do more for society than if they were intentionally trying to help society. War is a consequence of the infectious meanness which governments fosters in society for the benefit of politicians.
            To your question – I suppose that an anarcho-capitalistic system could come about via revolution, but I don’t think it likely. Further, I do not see capitalism as some form of magic which will make all men love one another. Its tenets greatly incentivize and encourage peaceable dealings among humans, but do not guarantee it. There will always be knuckleheads to cause some local havoc. But, such knuckleheads will not have the power of the state to cause real, broad geographic harm. And the knuckleheads, assuming they are not mentally ill, will be incentivized to get along so they won’t be on the outs.
            The really tough thing about capitalism is that it is more difficult to understand than the socialistic nonsense which is all feelgood. Our schools not only do not teach capitalistic theory, they demean it and give students a short range focus where socialism fits right in. Rand writes often about how asking the progressives where the variety of goods in our system of today will come from in a socialistic system. The answer is always in the vein of “somehow”. That education part is critical. People whose minds are poisoned in childhood seem not to ever recover or are even capable of recovering.
            People are offended by all kinds of things these days. Human nature is a pretty amazing thing, but it is what it is. For some reason, suggesting to many that it cannot be made anything we wish is offensive and some even what to ban the discussion of the same.
            Most people are so poor at mathematics that when they advocate for egalitarianism I think they view themselves as living like a millionaire without realizing that both the math and the disincentives to produce in such a system will more likely make them live like a pygmy in the jungle. They just cannot fathom that all the stuff they see around them comes from human effort. They just assume they will belly up to the bar and consume at will, while the stuff “somehow” keeps magically appearing.
            Thomas

          • Ron Mortimer

            Tom

            Thanks for that piece!!!

            ………………………………………………..
            “To your question – I suppose that an anarcho-capitalistic system could come about via revolution, but I don’t think it likely.’
            ………………………………………………….
            Neither do I. Perhaps it will be tried when there is simply no other way forward ie. a collapse scenario. Such a reset would be the only time people’s expectations could be reset.

            …………………………………………………..
            “Our schools not only do not teach capitalistic theory, they demean it and give students a short range focus where socialism fits right in.”
            ……………………………………………………
            The default political leaning of most people is socialist of varying degrees………..and depending on whether they stand to be a giver or receiver lol

            …………………………………………………….
            “Rand writes often about how asking the progressives where the variety of goods in our system of today will come from in a socialistic system. The answer is always in the vein of “somehow”. ”
            ……………………………………………………….
            Possibly because the average progressive doesn’t actually make anything. People who actually make things, from assembly line worker to tradesman to engineer do not take this process for granted.

            ……………………………………………………………
            “People are offended by all kinds of things these days. Human nature is a pretty amazing thing, but it is what it is. For some reason, suggesting to many that it cannot be made anything we wish is offensive and some even what to ban the discussion of the same.”
            …………………………………………………………………

            Annoys the hell out of me too this offence culture. I am waiting for the day that someone says to me that they feel ‘microaggression’ lol. It all started with the ‘offended’ culture…harden up princesses is my response. Unbelievable how precious some people have become.
            As for your observation that human nature is not all that malleable, I agree…..Bruce jenner will always just a man in a dress.

            ……………………………………………………………….
            “Most people are so poor at mathematics that when they advocate for egalitarianism I think they view themselves as living like a millionaire without realizing that both the math and the disincentives to produce in such a system will more likely make them live like a pygmy in the jungle. ”
            …………………………………………………………………
            i have only relatively recently realized what nonsense so-called ‘equality’ really is. No two people are equal. Equal means ‘the same’. Men and women are not equal, and can never be. Say that to the average person and they assume that you are racist and sexist…..but it is just reality.

            ………………………………………………………….
            “They just cannot fathom that all the stuff they see around them comes from human effort. They just assume they will belly up to the bar and consume at will, while the stuff “somehow” keeps magically appearing.”
            ……………………………………………………………

            It takes fewer and fewer people to actually make and distribute all that stuff so therefore more and more people are so divorced from understanding how stuff actually comes to be. Sort of like people thinking that meat is made plastic wrapped from a supermarket whereas 100 years ago most people would have had contact with farms and know the reality of food production.

            cheers Ron

          • Thomas

            Ron,

            I have enjoyed our conversation. I also think we have exhausted all that there is to be said here.

            I like Paul Rosenberg’s writing. He makes excellent points. If I have any concern is that I think he is a tiny bit unduly optimistic insofar as human nature is concerned. While I think, and it appears to me that you think, that we humans could have a glorious (as compared to most of human history) future of political and economic liberty, there are too many political control freaks to make that likely. Further, the human mind is demonstrably awesome, but not naturally so. When I see what I can only describe as empty-headed boobs cheering at an H. Clinton or Sanders rally, I fear for the future of not only Americans, but for all people.

            Do you listen to the ‘Tom Woods Show’? I have started to comment over there. I am trying to be a realist though I can come across as a pessimist. The fact is I do not know how to stop the rot in society caused by politicians, politics and their corrupt, controlling ways. Cato, The Mises Institute, etc. are full of wonderful ideas, but they mostly go nowhere. It is impossible to embarrass members of the political class let alone get them to change.

            Thomas

  • gene

    While I agree that the hate for Jews and Israel has recently ginned up again, I see no evidence that those who espouse liberty and all it entails are the ones fomenting the hate. It’s coming from universities and as usual the left and the wanna-be-Nazis, hardly the people who lean libertarian.

    • Ron Mortimer

      Gene
      So called ‘hate’ is merely people waking up to what is going on around them. Watching their politicians sell them out and suck up to jews instead.

      • gene

        Yes! Politicians sell us out and suck up to the power structures headed by Jews. (campaign donations) but it’s not those who are successful and self identify as conservative or libertarian. It’s liberals, hard leftists, and Neo Nazi types.
        If you know of a libertarian website that that full of Jew hatred, or in your words have awakened, show me, and I will gladly withdraw my objection.

  • http://www.jesus-on-taxes.com/ Ned Netterville

    Good article, Paul. And you sure hit the nail on the head when you predicted what kind of rodents would crawl out from the dumpster to excoriate you for your audacity.

    • Ron Mortimer

      Ned

      What’s with the rodents tag?No one is excoriating Paul for bringing the topic up. It’s time to discuss the jews and their impact on our societies without artificial politeness. It’s not as if they hold back from discussing the goyim, their rabbis have called us ‘cattle’ and “born to serve jews”…….so why shouldn’t we discuss them without fear?

      • http://www.jesus-on-taxes.com/ Ned Netterville

        Ron, your description of the Jews sounds like a description of followers of The Prophet Mohammad. I would describe what you are saying as “fear mongering.” Those of us who are disciples of Jesus have nothing to fear from Jews or Islamists. Our fear, if we had to have one, should probably be Christian, Jewish and Islamist statists who mistakenly believe that God ordained the concept of human government–some folks ruling others.

        If you aren’t a Friesian Holstein nor a servant of a Jew, you really needn’t worry about Jews. What other people think of me is none of my business.

        • Ron Mortimer

          Ned

          Fearmongering or reality? That is the question.

          • http://www.jesus-on-taxes.com/ Ned Netterville

            Ron, Evidently it is your reality and it apparently frightens you.

          • Ron Mortimer

            Ned
            No need to pathologize an observation…..wilful blindness is nothing to be proud of.

  • individuisma

    The author wrote: “Israel is a state, and we hold all states as morally
    inferior, do we not? So, why the obsession with just this one? Where are the
    breathless horror stories from Belarus? Where are the brave investigations of
    Turkmenistan? Where’s the in-depth analysis of Uzbekistan, or Burma, or the
    Congo. Why do none of those places matter?”
    I cannot speak for everyone, as everyone has different motivations. As for myself it is simply because Belarus, Uzbekistan, Burma, and the Congo do not have as strong of an impact on U.S. foreign policy. The current U.S. foreign policy of seeking out dragons to slay overseas is horrific. It costs human lives, helps our politicians justify invasions of privacy and losses of liberty. In pure terms of evil North Korea is on my top of evil states, not Israel. But North Korea does not successfully sway U.S. politicians into changing our foreign policy on its behalf.

  • Ron Mortimer

    Paul

    While I appreciate your humanitarian sentiments:
    “All of this, my friends, is binary thinking; all of it declines to the level of primate instincts. All of it is devolution.”
    That is true…..but that is how the world works and is probably hard wired into human behaviour. Jews themselves are great exemplars of it, which is why they can work as a team against us so effectively.
    Only stupid and brainwashed white people(not jews of course) believe in the “everyone is equal and we are all individuals etc etc” not understanding that other play against us a a team while we are singing “Kumbaya”.

  • Ron Mortimer

    Paul

    …………………………………………………….
    “And if the Israelis were actually like the Nazis, the Palestinians would all be dead by now. So the statement is also illogical.”
    ……………………………………………………..

    Just noticed it, the illogicality of your statement. The Nazis didn’t kill all the jews either so what does that mean for your above statement?

  • GrayCat

    Paul,

    Unfortunately, you neglected to mention the elephant in the room, the real driving force behind the issue of the controversy of the modern secular state of Israel: religious faith, and modern interpretations of the significance of the “re-establishment” of the “biblical” state of Israel.

    First, even most liberty-minded folk are, in our culture, Christians or Jews. In that frame of reference, the “re-establishment” of the “biblical” state of Israel is an eternal pivot point.

    Second, since most “Christian” teaching since Constantine has embraced, justified, and incorporated worldly violence and wars, it has wrongly emphasized human rulers and their “governments” as established and ordained by the God of the Bible, even though a careful reading of the whole Bible, but especially Jesus’, Paul’s, John’s, and James’s teachings, tells an honest reader exactly the opposite.

    Third, the sad fact is that Jesus was absolutely correct: many are called, few are chosen, and a bare minimum of those claiming Him will ever make it to where He is. The majority take the broad way that leads to spiritual death, all the while rationalizing and justifying their bloody CHOICE.

    They ignore Cain and what God did about him; they ignore the example of a ruling strong man pulled out to illustrate the evil of human rulership in Genesis 11:1-9. They ignore God’s stated reason for the Great Flood: the wickedness – the VIOLENCE – that is in the heart of man continually – Genesis 6. They ignore that nowhere in Genesis 9:5-6 is there mention that God establishes rulers of men to take vengeance on other men, or to carry out capital punishment or make wars. Nowhere. It is merely assumed, ignoring God’s own clarity when He warns, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay.” They assume God needs help. You know what “assume” means, yes?

    They ignore that Abraham was not a ruler, nor was Isaac, nor was Jacob Israel. Nor were any of their descendants. Joseph was delegated power to regulate food during a famine, in which he saved the people by judiciously making sure no one went without. He was not a “king” in the sense of a “ruler” of men; he was not a “strong man” who killed others. He even forgave, with tenderness, love, and tears, those who attempted to kill him.

    They ignore that the Hebrew midwives had ignored royal commands of the government to kill male babies at birth, and that Moses, as the very Hand of God, in obedience to God, defied Pharaoh, the “established” ruler.

    They ignore that God gave that ruler every chance to repent of his tyrannical ways. And God wiped out in one afternoon the ruler and his army who pursued His peacefully defiant, fleeing people. They ignore that Moses never set up himself or others to rule the people, even though he might have. They ignore that when they obeyed God’s SPECIFIC, DIRECT COMMAND to wipe out the depravity of human sacrifice, among other depravities and perversions that had grown up in the Promised Land in the over 400 years since Jacob and his sons had left it seeking refuge and sustenance in Egypt, they were victorious, and every single time they went to war without His SPECIFIC, DIRECT COMMAND, they LOST.

    When it was “over,” Joshua and Caleb laid down their arms, and declared each and every man was free to do whatever they wanted to, so long as it was peaceful. And the system of local tribal judges was established, in which local grievances were adjudicated through arbitration, not a government “court system” and “law enforcement.”

    This system lasted for almost 500 years. God never rescinded the freedom He had given the people, even though it is recorded great and heinous sins were committed, and “every man did what was right in his own eyes.” No denying there was great sin. But God never took away their freedom to choose between Him and sin! He only gave the Ten Commandments, defining every person’s responsibility to God and his neighbor; throughout the Ten Commandments a human rulership/government is never established; God never established formal human governments/rulers, “laws,” or “law enforcement.” Only He was absolute, supreme Ruler and King.

    They ignore that it is God Himself who objects to the people clamoring for a human ruler over them, so they could “be like the other nations,” and have a visible, human ruler instead of an invisible King who required them to be responsible for their choices and actions: 1 Samuel 8.

    So God let them have what they PREFERRED over Him. And it led, eventually, to the re-conquering of the Promised Land by their pagan enemies, and the EXILE of the people into the very pagan societies and nations they had been separated from. Culminating in the final Diaspora of 70 A.D., after they had rejected – AGAIN – and put to death their true King — even though He humored them and became visible as a human being — because He once more called them to non-violence, non-vengeance, and responsibility for themselves in His freedom.

    The “Christian” religionists ignore all that. Because their hearts love violence and blood, and lust to rule and control their fellows. God tells us this is the true motivation, and Jesus taught so.

    But hey, everyone knows that wisdom is to buy fire insurance. So if they can claim they “believe” in Him, they can commit any unholy act in His Name; they can find isolated texts in their holy book that seem to support their wicked desires (James 1) – and still claim they are the good guys, saved and going to heaven. And here we are today; it’s even taught in the pulpits, so you KNOW their heart’s desire for blood, and to somehow escape their personal responsibility for the murder they instigate and commit, is correct.

    They ignore God’s own condemnation of violence and blood and war, and His own definition of who His True Israel is: Isaiah 56 – 59. They ignore Christ’s admonition at Matthew 20:20-28. They ignore His Sermon on the Mount – they claim He wasn’t talking about what they’re doing, and didn’t mean it for ALL situations in life. “There is a time for war,” after all; the great Solomon, the great sinner who died in his sins, says so in that book of rationalization philosophy, Ecclesiastes. Never mind that that passage is referring, IN CONTEXT, to the ancient custom of kings to make war during good weather – usually spring and summer – and in the daylight. It does not refer to ANY human worldly wars being justified by God!

    This is God’s prescription for confronting enemies: 2 Chronicles 20; 2 Kings 18 – 19; 2 Chronicles 32:1-23; Isaiah 36 – 37. They ignore that God forbade King David, that “man after God’s own heart,” from building His Temple, His House on Earth, because David was a man of war with blood on his hands: 1 Chronicles 28:3.

    They ignore God, and twist His Word, ignoring and tearing out of context His Scriptures to support their twisted desires. They ignore the surrounding context of Paul’s definition of and requirements for the true Christian life in his letter to the Romans, chapters 12 and 13; they rip out of and isolate from that context seven verses, Romans 13:1-7, to try to support their worship of human rulership and justification of the wicked violence they love in their hearts. They ignore Galatians 5 and 6; 1 Corinthians 13 (is that just for weddings and wedding anniversaries?! Really?!); they ignore the context and meaning of Ephesians 5 and 6; they ignore the clear teaching of 1 John. They ignore what Jesus DID; what Paul, John, Peter, and most of the Christians of the first three centuries DID, and thus why they were martyred, and in John’s case, banished to solitary confinement because they couldn’t kill him, so he couldn’t infect the people AGAINST THEIR RULERS anymore.

    They ALL opposed their human rulers.

    These “Christian” religionists even ignore Revelation 19, in which not a single one of the vast army of heaven wields a weapon, but only their Leader, their King, Jesus. And He doesn’t wield a physical sword, but the Sword of His Spirit, coming out of His mouth, the Word of God. That is the ONLY weapon mentioned ANYWHERE in Revelation that any Christian ever uses. They uncomfortably look at that and claim it only has meaning and relevance for the end of the “Great Tribulation.” Disregarding all the other teaching on that very subject in the whole rest of the Bible – and the lessons of the martyrs of the first three centuries!

    Who should we trust as knowing and understanding and interpreting what Jesus actually taught and meant: “Christian” scholars and religionists since the time of Constantine, or those people who actually sat at His feet, and their immediate disciples, and faced death for their daring to defy human rulership?

    Pardon, but as for me and my house, we choose Him and those who were closest to Him, as knowing Him and His teachings, their meanings and intents, better than anyone else since the fifth century A.D.

    There is no Christian permission for some human rulers over others, nor for any true Christian to participate in human rulers’ wars. There is nothing in the Bible that even hints at Christians participating in such murderous criminality and blasphemy.

    Those who ignore Him have a very small, impotent, and fearful god, as demonstrated by his constant raging against human freedom, dignity, and prosperous peace.

    But the mystery is why do they prefer that one over the One who gave us His Golden Rule, even the Silver Rule, and is above all, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, merciful, loving, and would have peace among men of goodwill above all? Who gave His life that we may be free to be His peaceful followers? Whose immediate followers “turned the world upside down” (Acts 17:6), by defying the rulers, proclaiming Christ as the only God and King, and refusing to swear loyalty and devotion to the Caesars, bringing on themselves persecution and horrible deaths, before the enemy’s fear-mongering and false promises seduced their descendants away from Him through the ambitious would-be emperor Constantine. We are living the consequences of that, yet most still prefer to ignore Him and His plain Word. Why?

    Who has a right to rule other human beings? Only One, who is the only Creator and King of the universe, and we His creatures, and He nowhere in His Word delegates His authority to rule in His place. There is one who usurps, and he will be forever separated from and punished by God, along with all those who presume to follow him.

    Who is qualified to rule other human beings? Only One, who is the only Creator and King of the universe, and we His creatures, and He nowhere in His Word delegates His authority to rule in His place. There is one who usurps, and he will be forever separated from and punished by God, along with all those who presume to follow him.

    This is the underlying issue, the elephant in the room. The other countries you cited have nothing to do with supposed biblical prophecy. The “re-establishment” of the state of Israel does. It’s not a question of race or statism, even for the anti-state religionists; they even point to the “miracles” that “re-established” the – modern, not ancient – secular, not devoted to the God of the Bible, but to the single, specific reference to “God is a Man of War” – state of Israel. It’s a question of how they choose to apply the Bible to today’s newspaper headlines. Too sad, for they do smear anti-state libertarianism and the God and Christ of the Bible. They have chosen their wicked, violent, murderous, bloody, sinful god. We can choose the Creator God, the King of the universe, who created us free to choose His Way, instead.

    Being enslaved to our lowest inclinations and desires, or freedom from them, is a CHOICE. That’s all the flap over “Israel” is really about. I choose His freedom from all that purposeful stupidity. What do the rest of you choose?

    • Greg

      You’ve got to be kidding. Who do you think’s going to read all of that as a COMMENT? You need your own blog.

      • GrayCat

        Some will, some won’t. It’s their choice.

        Brevity may be the soul of wit, but this isn’t about wit, it’s a discussion about a serious subject, and PC soundbites are a cop-out.

        Thanks.

    • http://www.jesus-on-taxes.com/ Ned Netterville

      Great post, GrayCat, and thank you for it. Because most Christians, not just church scholars and religionists embrace their human rulers, pledge their allegiance to their nation-state, and support the iron rule of law, as opposed to the Golden Rule of Jesus, I am no longer a Christian, rather a disciple of Jesus.

      You said, “Christian scholars and religionists since the time of Constantine,,,”

      I believe Christians began deserting the principles Jesus taught long before Constantine, which marked their final and complete capitulation to etatism. Surely Justin Martyr’s First Apology was a fawning petition to Caesar claiming Christians were good taxpayers because Jesus has said, “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s” (Not bother to tell Caesar that everything belongs to God, leaving nothing for Caesar–Psalm 24:1.)

      • GrayCat

        Thank you, Ned.

        Yes, men are men, after all, and not equal in their fervency of belief. But surely, knowing Justin Martyr’s history and full body of his writings, you don’t mean to accuse him of deserting the principles of Jesus?

        Yet, here is what Justin wrote in his First Apology:
        “And everywhere we, more readily than all men, endeavour to pay to those appointed by you the taxes both ordinary and extraordinary, as we have been taught by Him; for at that time some came to Him and asked Him, if one ought to pay tribute to Cæsar; and He answered, ‘Tell Me, whose image does the coin bear?’ And they said, ‘Cæsar’s.’ And again He answered them, ‘Render therefore to Cæsar the things that are Cæsar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.’ Whence to God alone we render worship, but in other things we gladly serve you, acknowledging you as kings and rulers of men, and praying that with your kingly power you be found to possess also sound judgment. But if you pay no regard to our prayers and frank explanations, we shall suffer no loss, since we believe (or rather, indeed, are persuaded) that every man will suffer punishment in eternal fire according to the merit of his deed, and will render account according to the power he has received from God, as Christ intimated when He said, ‘To whom God has given more, of him shall more be required.'”

        Did Justin actually claim anything Jesus hadn’t? Were the rulers Christian? Was Justin — or any of the persecuted Christians of his day — in a position to claim their Christ’s supreme rulership over the Caesars — who claimed to be, after all, gods, ruling by the divine appointment of their supreme gods? Were any of the rulers of a mind to listen to, much less concede this truth? What opportunity would he have gained for Christ with yet another excuse for their enemies to criminalize them and wipe them out as fodder for their “games”? Wouldn’t Justin have been guilty then of yet more innocent blood on his hands? What is Christian about giving deliberate offense unnecessarily? Didn’t Christ also say for us to be clever as serpents and harmless as doves?

        The issue today is that supposed “Christians” claim the right to rule and tax not only non-believers, but fellow Christians. That is unconscionable. And unjust, and sin (Matthew 17:24-27; 20:20-28).

        If we have the “freedom” to object to that, conscience decrees we — especially Christians — should. Peacefully. Bloodlessly. Non-violently.

        And as with coming to a true belief in Jesus Christ Almighty God, it is only with persuasion of our fellows that it can be accomplished.

  • Ron Mortimer

    Paul

    …………………………………………………………………..
    “Marxism was a big one to blame on the Jews for a long time, but media, banking, and others are now vying for the crown.”
    ……………………………………………………………………
    The question is whether the blame is fair or not, no?
    ……………………………………………………………………..
    “Jews survived for many centuries by getting involved in new things before the regulators caught up with them and forced them out. Over time, the strategy stuck and Jews internalized it. At this point in world history, new things simply attract more Jews than most other ethnicities. So what?”
    ……………………………………………………………

    You make it sound so innocent “before the regulators caught up with them and forced them out. “. A better case could be made for the proposition “till the people became Jew wise and drove them out”. The same think will happen again when the American people(and no, I am not american BTW) that their country has been hijacked by the tribe to serve their interests. What do you think about that? What do you think should be done?

    Here is the problem. Jews have lived in many places quite successfully(for the host society as well) over the past two thousand years provided 1/ They are kept in autonomous ghettoes (rabbis loved that as it gave them control) and 2/ they were excluded from certain professions and politics. Since full emancipation in the mid to late 1800s this has meant that jews have used their ethnic solidarity against the host societies to further their interests.
    So. given that white europeans have been systematically been brainwashed into giving up any form of self defence for fear of being called ‘anti semitic’, and jews have pursued their ethnic interests eg. multiculturalism, as a weapon against the hosts…….what do think should be done, if anything?

    You mention the no force rule……but there are also the prohibitions against fraud and coercion. Does organised jewry indulge in those to maintain its position? I would say they do. What do you suggest should be done about that?

    Thanks for bringing this topic up as it is an emerging trend(and not before time either).
    Cheers

    • tionico

      just because some cultural jews are leaders in media, banking, politica, whatever, does not mean these things are inherently jewish. Those people, for milennia, have always done well at whatever their hands have found to do. WWHY? You might take a look at their culture, how they raise their families, run businesses, learn how to prosper, master a trade, etc. There are valid reasons why they have been hated and driven out in so many places… seems whatever they turn their hand to they excel in, and make the locals look good. In Europe, they were denied the ownership of land. Made it hard to establish long term communities, that. So they turned to banking, jewelry, brokering, music, education, etc.. all things that could easily be picked up and moved. Ever considered the origin of the word JEWelry?
      Look back in our own history a mere 40 to 50 years. Can you think of a people group foreign to the US that came here in large numbers and quickly found their place within our society, often outworking and outserving and out-prospering their neighbours who had been doing the same old same old for fifty years? This people group became well hated and despised because they prospered as they learned about their new culture and home. I am speaking of the Vietnamese, particularly the Boat People. They made the existing populations in Orange County, Long Beach, Tacoma, and many other places look very bad by compariison within about ten years of their arrival with next to nothing.

      • Ron Mortimer

        Tionico

        ………………………………………………….
        “just because some cultural jews are leaders in media, banking, politica, whatever, does not mean these things are inherently jewish.’
        ……………………………………………………
        If a non jew says that Hollywood is owned by the jews then the ADL’s Foxman starts screaming……but when a jew (Joel Stein)says it in the LA Times it’s “C’mon, how can you not believe Hollywood is owned by the jews”‘… That is the power of propaganda…to make you not notice what is in front of your eyes..

        ………………………………………………………
        “Those people, for milennia, have always done well at whatever their hands have found to do. WWHY? You might take a look at their culture, how they raise their families, run businesses, learn how to prosper, master a trade, etc. ”
        ……………………………………………………….
        Or how much is it to do with ethnic networking? In group/out group?
        It’s easy for a group of trusted insiders to do well in an open society that has no idea of the connectedness of the players…..sort of like Freemasons.

        …………………………………………………
        “In Europe, they were denied the ownership of land. Made it hard to establish long term communities, that.”
        ……………………………………………………..
        Perhaps being expelled over 100 times might also have something to do with establishing long term communities? And being expelled 100 times is no coincidence, is it? As I mentioned elsewhere, Henry Kissinger(jew) said “any people persecuted as much and for so long as the jews must have been doing something wrong”. So enough of the persecuted story and more of the self inflicted story.

        The real point is that no one in Europe wanted them around. In the same way they want to be a separate people and do their own thing…Europeans wanted the same…..no jews. Why couldn’t they just take the hint?

        …………………………………………………….
        “Look back in our own history a mere 40 to 50 years. Can you think of a people group foreign to the US that came here in large numbers and quickly found their place within our society, often outworking and outserving and out-prospering their neighbours who had been doing the same old same old for fifty years?”
        ………………………………………………………
        You are talking about your history not mine…I am Australian. Yes we also got vietnamese ‘boat people’ in the 1980’s and many did very well, they ran large heroin importing gangs but have since moved onto other things like extortion and home invasions. In Australia ‘home invasion’=asian crime. We never heard of that before….ain’t multiculturalism grand???

        …………………………………………………..
        “They made the existing populations in Orange County, Long Beach, Tacoma, and many other places look very bad by compariison within about ten years of their arrival with next to nothing.”
        ……………………………………………………

        And what has this to do with jews other than that ethnic cooperation works? And that if we had been as racially exclusionary as jews or asians then they would have gotten nowhere.

        The real issue for Americans IMO is that so many of your politicians swear allegiance to Israel and the jews. Jews control both political parties (Saban and Adelson), the Federal Reserve, DHS, are embedded throughout the highest levels of government, decide which of israel’s enemies the US will fight(to the last american soldier and last USD) even to the point of supporting ISIS in order to destabilize the ME and eject Assad…an enemy of Israel not the US etc etc and on it goes……. They are now flooding the US with hispanics(courtesy of jewish immigration efforts going back to the 1965 immigration reform bill) which will see whites as a minority in their own country in not so long.

        So, the question is….do you enjoy being cucked by the jews?

    • tionico

      “Marxism was a big one to blame on the Jews for a long time, but media, banking, and others are now vying for the crown.”
      ……………………………………………………………………
      The question is whether the blame is fair or not, no?

      valid question, correctly answered in the negative. Karl Marx was from a traditional christian background, his father was a pastor, and he turned against his upbringing. His entire schtick was a plot to remove the Christian God and the Bible from culture. The only conexion with the jews is taht Jesus Himself was a jew….. but that goes way back before Marx and his problems.

      So, in a word, NO.

      • Ron Mortimer

        Tionico

        Thanks for that reply.

        Karl Marx was a jew….or so says wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx
        Both of his grandfathers were rabbis (though his father did convert to Lutheranism, most likely for strategic purposes) but more importantly, his mother was jewish. Jewish mother=jewish child.

        So in a word, YES

        But there is more to it than that( as there is with everything)….Karl Marx’s religion or lack thereof is not the issue as much as the vast majority of early Marxists were jews.
        Don’t take my word for it….DYOR. Churchill, as well as many others, had something to say about it. http://www.mosaisk.com/revolution/Winston-Churchill-Zionism-Versus-Bolshevism.php

        cheers

  • bruce shand

    A reason Israel might merit extra attention is our rather generous sponsorship whereas the other countries you mentioned it’s not applicable.

    • Ron Mortimer

      Bruce
      ‘Rather generous sponsorship’ Is that a polite way of saying that the US is Israel’s bitch and all the politicians who suck up to the jews are traitors that need some rope and a lamppost? Seems like it to me….

  • Hogeye Bill

    Seems like a straw man column to me. I don’t know of any libertarian site that writes anything like what the author describes. I know of no libertarian site that confuses the State of Israel from its victims living there. Note that the author gives no examples or direct quotes, nor reveals the url of any “cancerous” sites.” The article comes off as pro-Israel statist apologetics, making up a whopper straw man.

    • Dave C in New Zealand

      Try a google search of the titles of the articles. That’s how I found them.

  • Ron Mortimer

    So, Paul….ten days on and your points above, if not torn to shreds then severely damaged. Hardly anyone here is willing or capable of effectively defending your claims, least of all you.

    Point number 1 ‘A Cancer’ on the movement. It remains to be shown whether ‘anti semitism'(however defined) is indeed a bad thing, a cancer at all. All you have provided is an assertion without any actual evidence. Jewish antigentilism/supremacism is a question that should be addressed.

    Point number 2 The Obsession. 14 out of 50 is not a huge number given the power of the jews…..or are you going to tell us that the jews are powerless? If they were powerless and insignificant then 14 out of 50 counts as an obsession but they are not. are they?

    “Israel is a state, and we hold all states as morally inferior, do we not? ” If all states are illegitimate then Israel is illegitimate, no? Are you willing to say it?

    Point number 3 They’re not really Jews; they’re Khazars.

    I agree with you there. It was the jew writer Arthur Koestler who promoted the idea in his book, The Thirteenth Tribe.
    Another jew writer, Shlomo Sands as written a book called ‘The Invention of the Jewish People’ in which he makes claims in some way similar to Koestler.He has supporters and detractors so it will take some time yet for his contribution to be evaluated.

    Point 4 There are Jews at the forefront of the (insert nasty name) movement.

    The example you gave was Marxism. As if that is merely a rumour that is was essentially jewish. Which the evidence shows that it was essentially jewish. And was the biggest bloodfest of the 20th century. Made Hitler look like an amateur….
    Yet we don’t hear much about how the 20th century’s greatest killers were jews. funny that…

    Add to Marxism proper, Cultural Marxism, and the Frankfurt School currently tearing western societies apart. Again all jews.

    Of course the Frankfurt school ideas have fed into feminism( a war created between man and women), and all sorts of minority rights movements which ultimately had the effect of decreasing freedom in western societies,,,,something I thought a libertarian would be interested in. Apparently not.

    Point 5 “You’re Just Pro-Israel!”

    “All of this, my friends, is binary thinking; all of it declines to the level of primate instincts. All of it is devolution.”

    But you are defending Israel are you not? Therefore you are engaging in ‘binary thinking’ yourself. To use your earlier point about obsession…of all the things to discuss, why bother defending Israel and jews? Or is it an obsession?

    Point 6 A Path Back to Barbarity, Back to Hate

    Are not jews the undisputed world champion haters? Every jewish holiday celebrates the victory over their enemies and how much they still hate that enemy.
    So the question is rather who is the hater, the jew or the goy? And if it is the jew then all this accusation of hate against white people is nothing other than projection.

    If we really want to eliminate or at least reduce hate then we should look at it objectively. Is the Talmud more hateful than the New testament seems a good place to start. Since the Talmud states that only jews are human and have a soul,that jews are a superior lifeform, that hews deserve all goy wealth, that Jesus is currently in hell being boiled in semen and/or excrement, and that his mother Mary was a whore(making Jesus a bastard), it seems that the jewish religion is indeed more hateful than Christianity. If you have any evidence to the contrary you should present it or else my contention stands.

    One other question, Paul. In the interests of transparency and full disclosure, are you jewish?

  • http://www.jesus-on-taxes.com/ Ned Netterville

    @ron_mortimer:disqus “One other question, Paul. In the interests of transparency and full disclosure, are you jewish?”

    One other question, Ron Mortimer. Are you or do you profess to be a Christian?

    • Ron Mortimer

      Ned

      Sorry about the late reply, for some reason i missed the notification that there had been a reply to my comment.

      In answer to your question…..no. I just don’t ‘get’ the story. If Jesus were God then his crucifixion was done with his consent and as part of his plan, he didn’t die, didn’t have to feel pain if he chose not to, therefore he sacrificed nothing therefore the story is nonsense. Perhaps I am being too literal and logical but that is me.

      That said, I do believe that Jesus is a powerful story for many and contains universal values, and all societies need a central myth that everyone at least pays lip service to with a core of strong believers. Without that nothing works.

      And it’s not as if(since you asked) I don’t believe in God…I just don’t accept this particular story.

      Anyhow, in reference to my earlier post, it was a reasonable question to ask.
      It is normal to state vested interests openly and honestly. It is no great feat to notice that Rosenberg is often a jewish name and so it was a reasonable question to ask.

      Paul’s inability to defend his assertions, and to engage with points I raised and the questions I asked says it all for me. And I am no rocket scientist either, …so I should be pretty easy to demolish if my points were wrong. I didn’t actually realise how easy it was to defeat those pushing a pro jewish agenda till now as I just say what I think…shows that there is not much behind the finger wagging and attempted shaming.
      cheers

      .

      • http://www.jesus-on-taxes.com/ Ned Netterville

        Ron, I am happy to learn you are not a Christian. (Neither am I.)

        I’m curious. how would you address the problem, as I presume you see it as a problem, of “Jewish antigentilism/supremacism?” Would you propose Hitler’s final solution or a gentler alternative?

    • Ron Mortimer

      Ned

      Seems that your reply to my post below and my reply to that were deleted last night (Oz time) so we will see if this stays up. Funny to see libertarians censor posts, lololol

      You said last night:

      ………………………………………………………………………………….

      “I’m curious. how would you address the problem, as I presume you see it as a problem, of “Jewish antigentilism/supremacism?” Would you propose Hitler’s final solution or a gentler alternative?”

      ……………………………………………………………………………………

      The ‘problem’ wasn’t originally defined as such by ‘evil anti semites’ but rather by jewish zionists. Theodore Herzl, an early and very influential figure in the zionist movement in the early 20th century was unimaginably frank compared to present day PC run discourse. He basically said that jews and gentiles were incompatible in the same society, because fundamentally on the whole, jews do not and will not respect gentile culture, institutions and traditions so the best solution is separation ie, the creation of a country specifically for jews. This lead to the Transfer Agreement between the Zionists and the Nazis in Germany in 1933 which continued even till after the outbreak of war in 1939. It suited the Nazis for a jew free Europe and it especially suited the Zionists to have someone with a big stick(the nazis) chasing the jews out of Europe…to Palestine. What better way would you want to start a country???

      To answer your question, I don’t believe in violence as a solution to any problem unless as a last resort….so a general public awareness of how their governments have been co opted by a hostile ethnic group for their own purposes would be a start. Given the levels of public apathy though, that is a big ask…

      As for the ‘Final Solution’…that seems to be disintegrating as we speak ie. the Auschwitz museum reduced the claimed death toll by 75% in the late 80’s when Soviet control over Poland had ceased(as had the Soviet Union itself).
      Raoul Hilberg (the late jewish pre eminent Holocaust historian) put the number at half that again…..yet the EU still throw people on jail for questioning the story….that says to me that it is more myth than reality.

      An apposite quote would be that of Voltaire ” To find out who truly rules over you, simply ask who cannot be criticized”……right on the money there!

      cheers

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